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Chaos
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Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 17
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 Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Entity325 wrote: | | Blade Runner SUCKED! |
While I disagree in a general sense - it's perhaps important to note that there are (unfortunately) SEVEN different versions of the film. It's likely that you watched the Director's Cut; which is widely regarded as inferior to the original, but seems to be by far the most common.
Blade Runner: The Final Cut gives the film the best chance today, I think. This was released last year and is the first version where Ridley Scott was in full control of the post-production. Fixes a large number of problems, properly remasters it and so on.
Anyway, just a FYI.
| Entity325 wrote: | | I also would make the claim that A.I. was lousy, especially if you consider how the story was told as much as what said story is. |
I think I saw a different movie to everyone else - I found it to be one of the most emotionally powerful sci-fi movies I've ever seen. A victory for Kubrick over Spielberg in my view. |
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Arioch
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Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Blade Runner is one of those films that's not one of my personal favorites, but I think you have to admit is was very important in terms of its impact on the genre. Films like Ghost in the Shell and The Matrix really owe a lot of their existence to Blade Runner, and it stands up on its own as an entertaining film; it has a lot of style. I personally prefer the original cut; the main character's voice-over narration is hokey, but it's necessary.
I couldn't get through more than about 15-20 minutes of A.I.
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Entity325
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Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Arioch wrote: | | but I think you have to admit is was very important in terms of its impact on the genre. Films like Ghost in the Shell and The Matrix really owe a lot of their existence to Blade Runner |
OK, on re-evaluation, valid. I suppose it's not fair to compare Blade Runner in my head to GITS and Minority Report(which is apparently what I did), both of which took features from Blade Runner and did a lot of refinement on them.
I did see the DX version, and it probably didn't help that I saw the DX version of Heart of Darkness the following day.(That movie was not fun to watch. It just dragged ON!) I might also be bugging out at the fact that people had no sense of aesthetics in the 1970s(That, at least, I think we can all agree on. Who makes an entire house out of ORANGE, anyway?), so the hairstyles and a lot of the "fancy" clothing are all hideous.
Come to think of it, I reacted about the same when I first saw Ghost in the Shell, which was better when I watched it again later with an older mindset.(9 years older. I was 14 when I'd first watched it, and had trouble ignoring the apparent nudity and the violence long enough to grasp the story. I still prefer the Stand Alone Complex series, though.)
As far as I can tell, A.I. was supposed to be an exploration into the nature of sentience and the human condition, but it came off more as an exercise in Nihilism stricken with a crippling case of ADHD. "Oh no, it's dangerous. Oh, let's go do this, now. Do what I want now with no regard for future consequences, because I'll never progress past having the mind of a five-year-old!"
It was... hard to watch, at best.
On the other hand, since it should be clear from my given list that my favorite kind of movie is something along the lines of "This is what you get when you combine Prozac with Acid," you should probably take my opinions with a grain of salt... 
If we are allowed to breach a bit out of strict "Movie" guidelines, I'd like to submit Red Vs. Blue and Heinlien's Starship Troopers(the book. I haven't seen the movie, though like Alien, I'm probably the only person here who hasn't.).
[edit]...wow, I write a lot...(OK, I'll stop, now. No, seriously.)[/edit] |
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ttallan
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Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I won't post my list of movies because it'll probably just look a lot like everyone else's, but...
What about War Games? If you count that as science fiction, then I would call that one of my all-time favourites.
Oh, wait, I know what else hasn't been mentioned yet! Rock and Rule. That was another great post-apocalyptic one from the 80s, and Canadian, too.
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tbowl
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Joined: 09 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Ugh I don't like hearing that Blade Runner sucked when it was the gran-daddy to like every gritty gumshoey sci-fi movie/book/whatever out there.
I utterly despise Minority Report, the movie made me physically ill. Next was leaps and bounds better however, though not set in the future... The new iRobot was good, I've watched it several times now.
But seriously, to call Star Wars the best sci-fi movie ever? Seriously? And I don't mean Rollerball or Running Man were good movies but they weren't bad, but to say that anything Lucas made was the BEST of anything? Maybe it is near perfection, (Not difficult when he just keeps changing it) but to say that its the best? That is setting your bar pretty low...
I mean, if we're talking about your favorite. Go ahead and say, "Star Wars is my favorite." But don't turn around and say that, "Blade Runner sucks!1!11."
But if you want to say, definitive best sci-fi movie, don't say Star Wars or Serenity... They have a fan base. No more, no less.
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Entity325
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Joined: 07 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: |
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You'll note Minority Report was not on my Top 10 list. It was interesting, but almost as riddled with plotholes and bad acting as A.I. Paycheck is its much, much better counterpart.
Admit it, though: you still liked Star Wars before the Special Editions were released. Even then, you probably still liked it before we got the atrocities that were Episodes 2 and 3.
If you really want to take a step out, though, Star Wars episode 4 revolutionized everything about the entire movie industry, from the way trailers were done to the style of the credits. In a time when the Sci-Fi giant was Star Trek, and Science Fiction itself was a very niche genere, it broke preconceptions about what a Science Fiction movie should be.
My mom, for example, recalls going to see Star Wars for the first time, after it had been out for only a couple of weeks, and getting hit with culture shock from the moment she stepped into the theater door. It hinted at legends and epics, was a coming of age story combined with a David and Goliath about a fascist empire and the rag-tag rebellion standing against it, and the jailbreak scene is just plain fun. It was one of the first science-fiction movies to actually go all-out on special effects, including multi-dozen compositings of starcraft in space combat, all of which are done near-seamlessly in the final product, in an age where "computer graphics" meant low-resolution ASCII. The sound team was so offended by the sound quality of early theaters that they had Lucasfilm push to establish the THX standard, which is why you even care about 5.1 surround sound.(or do you prefer 7.3 surround, as some audio fanatics do?)
If we go by all of this, Star Wars is indeed far more important to the history of Science Fiction and movies in general than Blade Runner, and even I have to admit that without Blade Runner, a lot of my favorites wouldn't exist. |
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tbowl
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Joined: 09 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Star Wars. Very important? Yes. Groundbreaking, bla bla bla? Yes.
Just because he crammed tons of plot, hooks and arcs into it doesn't make it like, the best or anything. I can see why its so many people's favorites, and I'm not saying I hate the movie... but seriously, the best?
I dig Mos Eisley and all of that, really I do... And the Millennium Falcon and yadda yadda yadda. I dig it ya know? But best sci-fi movie ever?
1st question for you. If you think Star Wars 4 is the best scifi movie, Let's pretend that Star Wars never came out, Lucas never even dreamed it up, and the whole entire rest of our time-line stayed EXACTLY THE SAME what's your #2 non-Star Wars sci-fi movie thats #2 on the best-o-meter?
2nd question for you. If Star Wars 4 came out 30 years later. (Around now-ish lets say), and with todays FX and sound. Would anyone care?
Lastly. I don't care about sound. I just want it loud enough to where I don't have to hear all the **** going on outside of wherever I am. (It is nice when it comes out of all of the speakers properly, whichever dolby thx surround thingy that is.) But I like Stereo just fine I guess. As long as its loud. Like said above.
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Entity325
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Joined: 07 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't believe this is the place for a Star Wars vs. Blade Runner flame war. I also don't think it's the proper place to discuss sound quality, but what you're doing is simply drowning out background noise with static. If I ever meet you in person, I'll make a mental note to bring my headphones. |
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zortic
Egg
Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| tbowl wrote: | | Let's pretend that Star Wars never came out, Lucas never even dreamed it up, and the whole entire rest of our time-line stayed EXACTLY THE SAME. |
But... That would cause an alternate temperal configuration completely altering our timeline as we know it!!!
Do you really think that everything in science fiction would be even close to what it currently is without Star Wars? It was the popularity of Star Wars that drove studios to develop Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica and hundreds of scifi rip offs. And while none of them may have been great, how many of those urged future film makers to "do better". For that matter, would Harrison Ford have made Blade Runner without his popularity in Star Wars?
When looking at something as dated as Star Wars, it's important to put yourself in the time it came out. Watch alot of TOS Star Trek, Lost in Space, 1950's monster movies, even 2001, basically any of the existing sci fi of the early 70s, then watch Star Wars and say that it wasn't a revolutionary approach to cinematic science fiction.
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ttallan
Egg
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| tbowl wrote: | | 2nd question for you. If Star Wars 4 came out 30 years later. (Around now-ish lets say), and with todays FX and sound. Would anyone care? |
Um, yes? I only have to talk to my 7 yr old son to know that. There's a reason Star Wars inspired a generation of SF geeks-- Star Wars is a good story. It may not be intellectual, or adult-themed, or present thought-provoking science, but it is an entertaining space opera with enough neat stuff to make any kid go "wow". I mean, the light saber? Darth Vader? Jedi Knights? It fires the imagination.
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tbowl
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Joined: 09 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Entity325 wrote: | | I don't believe this is the place for a Star Wars vs. Blade Runner flame war. I also don't think it's the proper place to discuss sound quality, but what you're doing is simply drowning out background noise with static. If I ever meet you in person, I'll make a mental note to bring my headphones. |
Oh man I had to read that a ton of times. think you're just saying that turning the volume up in stereo is staticky crap. Ah I get it! You're totally right. I meant stereo as in like, two speakers, not I walk around with a boombox everywhere. I wear headphones everywhere too, (hence talking about hearing my music in stereo...) Whew big missunderstanding!!! At home I wish I had dolby stuff for my entertainment center and gaming, but I don't.  Just normal 2 speaker stuff. Hopefully some day!
I also wanted to say that I really love Final Fantasy: Advent Children. (I like the first movie too, but it's a little out there.)
| zortic wrote: | | Do you really think that everything in science fiction would be even close to what it currently is without Star Wars? It was the popularity of Star Wars that drove studios to develop Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica and hundreds of scifi rip offs. And while none of them may have been great, how many of those urged future film makers to "do better". For that matter, would Harrison Ford have made Blade Runner without his popularity in Star Wars? |
Hmmm, I don't know. There's a lot of good books out there that never made it to the big screen. With that being said, Star Wars did a lot of things right OFF SCREEN that were just important that nobody else had done yet, i.e. merchandising. So to ask the question, "Would sci-fi be the same?" We don't know if a different fish could have came along.
I was wondering the other day what it would have been like if Walmart had never came along... I guess I don't know enough about how an idea gets to film. I really like the Ringworld universe... I really like the Wing Commander universe... I really liked Space: Above and Beyond. I've liked a lot of stuff, and I have no idea why stuff happens the way it does in theater, so I have no idea which are ripoffs, and which are just other sci-fi that isn't half bad but still miserably failing for who knows why. I do know it sucks though. And I do know that the whole world (not just sci-fi) would be completely different, or at least vastly behind if it wasn't for Star Wars...
As for Harrison Ford, he might never have gotten noticed, because didn't he basically start Star Wars and Indiana Jones at the same time? So, yea. That probably would have been that. Unless you play into the whole 'Last Action Hero' of things where Arnold becomes Stallone who would become Vin Deisel who becomes Chuck Norris, whenever you take one of them away they just constantly replace each other. Maybe Chuck Norris would have been Han Solo? o.O
| ttallan wrote: | | Um, yes? I only have to talk to my 7 yr old son to know that. There's a reason Star Wars inspired a generation of SF geeks-- Star Wars is a good story. It may not be intellectual, or adult-themed, or present thought-provoking science, but it is an entertaining space opera with enough neat stuff to make any kid go "wow". I mean, the light saber? Darth Vader? Jedi Knights? It fires the imagination. |
Oh yea I remember my friend telling me how his two girls watched it they were in the 5-7 range between the both of them and it was Jedi fever for a long time. So I think people would go nuts, but I mean if like, parallel timeline, everything the same, do you think Star Wars now would have exactly the same punch now as it did 30 years ago? Like, do you think there still have been barely any movies (not even just sci-fi) that have even told a story remotely as well? Argh how do I put this into words better. Would it gross as much as like oh lets say Lord of the Rings... or Pirates of the Caribbean...? (I can't think of other ways people really measure films anymore besides gross profit...) I think people'd still love it, you're right, but what do you think it'd gross $$$?
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Axonite
Super Ostrich
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 1560
Location: NEPA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| tbowl wrote: | | Oh yea I remember my friend telling me how his two girls watched it they were in the 5-7 range between the both of them and it was Jedi fever for a long time. So I think people would go nuts, but I mean if like, parallel timeline, everything the same, do you think Star Wars now would have exactly the same punch now as it did 30 years ago? Like, do you think there still have been barely any movies (not even just sci-fi) that have even told a story remotely as well? Argh how do I put this into words better. Would it gross as much as like oh lets say Lord of the Rings... or Pirates of the Caribbean...? (I can't think of other ways people really measure films anymore besides gross profit...) I think people'd still love it, you're right, but what do you think it'd gross $$$? |
Well, there's really no way to know, since that'd be a different universe, and they might not even be using the same kind of money there... 
But seriously, if there hadn't been any other sci-fi movies like it in the meantime, I think it'd be a big hit. Plus the action figures, costumes, books, Darth Vader voice-changing mask, breakfast cereal, etc.
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Entity325
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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No no, I thought you were talking sound quality. Turning the speakers up too high makes them start thudding out, making the sound quality all washy, and if it's up too high, you've basically got white noise. I'd have to bring my headphones because I actually happen to like the outside noises, and nothing grinds all of my nerves to dust faster than WHITE! NOISE!
If I had my own personal Hell, one of the included features would be white noise, because I can't imagine anything worse than having to hear that for eternity.
so I'd have to bring some other music to keep from going insane. |
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tbowl
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yea, no, I don't listen to stereo's outside, I have a tiny radio in the garage for when I have to carry lots of things to and from it though. I was talking about Stereo, like, when sound properly comes out of two speakers. I listen to headphones cuz I live in cube-world where nobody shuts up. My personal hell is people talking about their weekends and evenings for 40 hours a week. When there aren't any kids screaming outside I like to listen to the birds at my house...
Okay back on topic. Take this site with a grain of salt... It is supposedly the 'highest grossing sci-fi movies' or whatever. Huge... grain of salt... I'm guessing it is missing a ton of movies because it doesn't start until '82.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=scificomedy.htm
Pasting it in isn't working, so here's the gist.
1) Men in Black
2) Men in Black 2
3) Honey, I Shrunk the Kids
4) Nutty Professor
5) Nutty Professor 2
6) Twins
7) Flubber (1997)
 Galaxy Quest
9) Stepford Wives
10) Honey, I Blew Up the Kid
You can read the rest, notable mentions at least for me were Hitchhikers at 12, Short Circuit at 13, Evolution at 14, Spaceballs at 15, Mars Attacks at 16, Coneheads at 24, Howard the Duck at 27, Spaced Invaders at 29...
So okay. We haven't talked about Men in Black yet. I think that was a pretty darn good movie. I don't think it opened any new doors.. Maybe for sci-fi comedy? Maybe it helped the green light for Hitchhikers?
imdb says Galaxy Quest was Dec. 25th, 1999. Men in Black was clear back in July of '97. So maybe it opened the door for Galaxy Quest also...
Argh, so besides obviously Spaceballs, and maybe Hitchhikers, I don't really see a good link. I have a feeling if I could find a like '70s-'80's list I'd find a huge link at least in the cinema. Because like Black Hole, The Last Starfighter..
Argh my headache is brutally killing me right now and I know that list is wrong because Starship Troopers wasn't on it among a million other sci-fi movies that I know grossed more than Honey, I shrunk the kids.
I gotta go to bed. If anyone can kind of see the path I'm going down here. Like trying to find the roots of each of the cinema sci-fi genres...
Ugh. I gotta go to bed. Ugh. Sorry.
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Arioch
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Joined: 05 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Twins is science fiction?
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