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Kyle Voltti
Egg
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| sketchmonster wrote: |
Art is hardly just bait though. I think there is a difference between being attracted to a strip because it's got a good style of art, and reading a story that is amplified by accurate descriptions of the story. |
true that the Art eventualy becomes more then just the bait but it is generaly the first thing you notice about a strip. |
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Axonite
Super Ostrich
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 1560
Location: NEPA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ben Paddon wrote: | | What about annually? |
I am looking forward to seeing if Zero Worship really does update again next April 1st... 
| Kyle Voltti wrote: | | It could work but it better be gosh darn spectacular..... I just realized I don't know what the appropriate level of cussing is for this board..... |
Gosh! Consarn it! Golly whillikers! Regolith!
(But seriously, I guess I'd say about the same level as the podcast?)
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Kyle Voltti
Egg
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: |
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ok this was rolling around in my head... just a first step mind you so any and all input is appreciated. I thought a template to build reviews on might be a usefull tool. it looks better in the word doc I made and I'll have to figure out a way to share it. I don't want to explain my reasoning behind the catagories yet I want to see what you think they mean. I want to make this as clear as I can and I won't know if it's clear unless I know what other poeple think it means first. If that makes any sense lol
Webcomic Name: ___________________________________________________________________
Webcomic Genre: ___________________________________________________________________
Apparent Target
Audience :___________________________________________________________________
Are you part of the target audience: Yes No
Update Schedule :___________________________________________________________________
Keeping to the schedule: Excellent Good Fair Poor Fail
ART
Presentation: Page Strip Single Panel Other:_______________
Line work: 1 2 3 4 5 n/a
Grayscale/ 1 2 3 4 5 n/a
Shading:
Colour: 1 2 3 4 5 n/a
Style: 1 2 3 4 5
Tone: 1 2 3 4 5
Characters: 1 2 3 4 5
Writing
Continuity : 1 2 3 4 5 n/a
Characterization: 1 2 3 4 5 n/a
Tone: 1 2 3 4 5
Style: 1 2 3 4 5
Site
Layout: 1 2 3 4 5
Navigation: 1 2 3 4 5
Extra content: 1 2 3 4 5
Comparable webcomics: _______________________________________________________________ |
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DustinP
Egg
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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A while ago I started to develop a site similar to what you guys are talking about in the latest podcast.
Http://comicdev.net
Not much there yet because it kinda fell on the back burner but still something. |
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sketchmonster
Egg
Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyle Voltti wrote: | | sketchmonster wrote: |
Art is hardly just bait though. I think there is a difference between being attracted to a strip because it's got a good style of art, and reading a story that is amplified by accurate descriptions of the story. |
true that the Art eventualy becomes more then just the bait but it is generaly the first thing you notice about a strip. |
agreed.
There seems to be a good sized amount of info in this thread regarding some kind of "10-commandments" of webcomics. I'll try to compile some kind of organized list tonight and include that rating list thing posted above too.
The more I call it the "10-commandments" of webcomics, the more I hate that name. These are definately not commandments of nazi laws or something, but I think it important to have some kind of general, agreed upon, foundational guides that everyone can weigh their own and each others work by- I guess it's a way we can all critique past the "i just don't like it" mentality- we've all seen that before. I think in doing this we can all grow in our craft. I also posted this thread over at Halfpixel, so I'll be gathering information from there as well.
Again, this will be by no means a definitive credo or something, and can be revised and grow or shrink. |
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Entity325
Hatching
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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On the topic of "What if Jjar stopped drawing Jump-Leads," I've got an example of what could happen on both ends of the spectrum.
On one end, there's Abstract Gender, which I don't read because after their last artist(the good one) quit, they have performed epic fail in the "regular updates" department. Their last artist("Asukaa," based out of Russia), though, seemed to put an end to the downward spiral that the art style had taken before, and basically pulled the art from copy-paste, emotionless sprites into characters which were able to convey emotion and body language the way none of the previous artists had.
On the opposite end, there's God Mode Online, which I haven't read since they changed artists. I don't even remember if the new artist was better, I just remember that the art is different enough now from what I came to know and love that it seemed like a completely different comic, and I couldn't stand reading it anymore.
I much agree with Arioch about the "Click the page to advance" feature. I especially like the comics which have it so that you can click the right side of the page to go next, left side to go back.
I think the comic review needs to add the following classifications in update reliability: (after Fail) Epic Fail, Mega Epic Fail, Zombie, Technicaly Ended |
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ttallan
Egg
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| sketchmonster wrote: | | I think it important to have some kind of general, agreed upon, foundational guides that everyone can weigh their own and each others work by- I guess it's a way we can all critique past the "i just don't like it" mentality- we've all seen that before. |
Hmm... I just don't think it's possible for an artist to be objective enough to review her own work. But it's a good place to begin for someone who has been asked to write a review for someone else's work.
Other criteria might include legibility of the text, which you could subdivide into font choice and balloon placement. These things make a big difference for me when I look at a comic and am deciding whether I want to devote some time to reading it. Clear, friendly lettering is like an invitation to read it. Poorly placed word balloons that leave me guessing which one I'm meant to read next annoys me.
Another thing to rate might be, how well does the webcomic attract new readers? There are many ways to do this, with things like a "New Readers" link or some other welcoming page, but at a basic story level one could ask, does the story have a strong beginning point?
...Actually, that's kind of a difficult thing to judge in a webcomic. How often do new readers start at the beginning? In a print book it's very clear where the reader will begin, but on the web it's anything thing goes. You could argue that you need to hook them with your current pages first before they'll devote time to your archive. Argh, where was I going with this? Anyway, wherever you lead your new readers, it should have a good story hook.
Also, I would suggest that your list still needs a plain old "Did I like it?" section. I can think of several webcomics that would likely score high marks across the board, but I still don't want to read it, either because the subject matter isn't to my taste or the characters are too obnoxious or something. It may be the most subjective part of the critique, but I think it's necessary.
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Entity325
Hatching
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Artists can review our own work.
The score is always a 3 out of 5, if you've got a healthy amount of perspective.
Here, I'll review your art for you: 4 out of 5. Would increase if you colored them. Really, I don't think a 5-point scale has as much resolution as we'd need.
Then there's guys like Kimmo Lemetti who I'd score at 6 or 7 out of 5. |
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Kyle Voltti
Egg
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| well you could make it 10 or use .25 .5 .75 to parse it down more. but at a certain point what does a .25 vs a .5 mean? Though your're right a 10 scale gives a bit more breathing room. |
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ttallan
Egg
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Entity325 wrote: | | Here, I'll review your art for you: 4 out of 5. Would increase if you colored them. Really, I don't think a 5-point scale has as much resolution as we'd need. |
Thanks? I agree that a 5-point scale is not enough, though, for a useful critique. Maybe along with the gradients (whether they be out of 5 or 10) there could be a couple of write-ins: "What one thing/aspect is most in need of improvement?" And, so we don't get too negative, "What one thing/aspect is working really well?"
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Kyle Voltti
Egg
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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comment sections, should they be in after each gradiant or after each catagory?
also version 2
Webcomic Name: ___________________________________________________________________
Webcomic Genre: ___________________________________________________________________
Apparent Target
Audience: ___________________________________________________________________
Are you part of the target audience: Yes No
Update Schedule: ___________________________________________________________________
Keeping to the schedule: Excellent Good Fair Poor Fail
ART
Presentation: Page Strip Single Panel Other: _______________
Line work: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n/a
Grayscale/ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n/a
Shading:
Colour: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n/a
Style: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Tone: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Characters: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Writing
Continuity : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n/a
Characterization: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n/a
Tone: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Style: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Site
Layout: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Navigation: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Extra content: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Comparable webcomics: _______________________________________________________________ |
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Arioch
Egg
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that giving someone a numeric rating is useful in any way. It's not specific about what you think is well done or what could be better, or how to make it better.
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Jim Francis
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Axonite
Super Ostrich
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 1560
Location: NEPA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'd agree that numbers alone aren't much help. ("Okay, art is 2/10 and humor is 3/10... So now what?")
If the numbers are in addition to more in-depth comments, though, then they could have some use. Maybe not so much for a single review, but when you have multiple categories and multiple reviews, numbers do have the advantage of being able to be averaged, which can help identify which categories might be generally seen as problem areas. (And then it'd be even more helpful to read the comments in those categories, of course!)
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Kyle Voltti
Egg
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The way I see it is that at the very least the numbers provide a foundation to build from. some form to build coments around. |
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ttallan
Egg
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I thought the checklist being created here was just meant to be a starting point for a critique, not something you fill out and hand over to the creator saying, "here you go, that's your review!" But if you're trying to critique a comic and don't know what to say about it, you can begin by running through these key points and expanding from there.
Having said that, though, I've completely lost track of who you were creating this list for in the first place. For people who want to start a review site? For creators who want to critique their friends' webcomics in a workshop environment? If you want to make a list of rules or "commandments" that a webcomicker must follow in order to make a good comic, as suggested in the beginning of this thread, I think it needs to go in a different direction.
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