forum.comicostrich.com

[sketchmonster]

The purpose of this thread (with everyones help) is to gather points of critique for some kind of rough "10(or more) Commandments of webcomics". Maybe it's a bit idealistic, but worth a shot.

In episode 11, a question was raised about some kind of un-biased 100% truthfull critique of one's work. Maybe there isn't one person or organization to be judge, jury and executioner, but there are plenty of maxims in the broader art world that can judge our craft.

So, what fields of the art world can we pull from and what rules from those fields can apply to us? I'll go first with the easy ones:

Film/animation and Graphic Design:

• Good and or consistent art style

• Use of color or grayscale or b&w- Does it help or hinder?

• Panel or screen composition- where the characters sit, how they're framed, what angles/shots are used?- Does it help or hinder?

• Writing- the compact and efficient use of language to properly convey and propel the story, and feed information to readers without lecturing. Proper story structure also.


Anyways, what do you guys think? What other avenues can we draw from? I think we should compile the information here make sure we all agree and publish it in a PDF form people can download and print out. A kind of check-list to make sure we're all heading in the right direction? Remember- bullet points, not lectures if you want to add. Or does this overlap the HTMW book too much?

[Axonite]

I think some of those points may be more important than others, depending on what kind of comic is being looked at. And of course personal taste is involved too - though I'd think that a comic that you like would probably do at least one of those things right!
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[zortic]

I actually have a theater background. So I can see comics having a strong relationship to any kind of performing art. Character and story development combine with staging, setting and dramatic structure in many of the same ways in both stage and screen.

[Arioch]

These comments exclude basic gag-a-day joke strips, which really don't require anything in the way of art style, exposition, or character/plot development.

Artwork is, in my opinion, the most important element of a comic. Writing is critical too, of course, but comics are a visual medium; artwork is (or should be) the reason you're doing a comic instead of just writing prose. The artwork doesn't have to be utterly fantastic, but the artwork has to offer a specific quality that makes the story worthwhile as a visual medium. If it doesn't, then chances are the writer should be writing a book instead of a comic. I would rather read well-drawn, poorly-written comic than a poorly-drawn, well-written comic. Or I'd just rather read a book. There are a lot of people who don't agree with me on this point, however.

Color is always desirable, if done well... come to think of it, even if not done well, it's usually beneficial, as it adds information to the image, and especially in a genre like science fiction, this is generally a good thing. The main drawback to color is that it adds workload, and makes composition more complex. B&W comics can look very sharp if done well, and are more economical to produce. Grayscale shading is nearly as much work as color, but I think it can be really useful for creating a certain feel, and I think it allows you to sometimes leave the background blank (as you can in B&W), whereas in color comics, a blank background tends to stand out more.

Varying panel composition is especially important if you're trying to convey information about your surroundings, which is usually necessary in science fiction comics. This was one of our few criticisms of Goodship Chronicles -- while intentional in this case, lack of pullback establishing shots or variation in the headshot camera angle reduces the environment to little more than a backdrop for the characters.

Writing is also essential to a good comic, but that's a very broad topic. Character and story structure are, of course, keys to any kind of storytelling. Proper use of dialogue and narration is important when it's necessary, but economy of dialogue and proper pacing is especially important in comics, because the reader can and often will start to skip dialogue if it becomes overly verbose or if the reader starts to feel that it's not moving the story forward. In many situations, dialogue and narration can be reduced or eliminated from certain scenes where the visuals are sufficient to move the action forward.
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Jim Francis

[zortic]

While I agree with Jim about the importance of art, I would like to make an addendum to point out that "good" art isn't limited to attempts at photorealism. At least in my opinion.

Stylized, minimalist or "cartoony" art is still a valuable visual approach, however it still needs to meet the criteria for "good" art. Composition, layout, even anatomy (at least conforming to your own established anatomical choices) are all important for any kind of visual approach. You need to be able to establish and stick to a look that is consistant, expressive, appealing and readable. Which can often be more difficult for a minimalist artistic style than for a more "realistic" approach.

For example, if you're doing a comic filled with stick figures and you suddenly need to include a rubber chicken, you need to be able to design a rubber chicken using the same economy of line and expressiveness as your human figures. And that is a special skill that should never be used as a "shortcut".

Take that for what it's worth.

Mark
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Check out Zortic, ETI-PI, Abby's Agency, Podwarp 1999, and the WCCAs

[Kyle Voltti]

in my mind art and writing do two different things. The Art is the bait. it's what gets you to take a look. it invites you in. The writing is what keeps you coming back every day. The hard part is deciding which one people will allow to suffer if the other is really good. Will poeple more likely put up with poor art if the writing is engaging or with weak writing if the art is breathtaking.

also... If we're talking Webcomics It's important that we address the consistancy of updates.

[zortic]

I think you're right on target Kyle. I confess that my own attraction to art does make me feel shallow sometimes. But I've alway felt that the argument "the art's not much but the writing is really good" to have the same tone as "...but she has a great personality". So I guess the other side of that analogy would be the smoking-hot supermodel with the loud, annoying voice.

As for the consistancy of updates, you're very right, but there's really not much room for detailed critique in that regard. Either a strip does it or it should be doing it.
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Check out Zortic, ETI-PI, Abby's Agency, Podwarp 1999, and the WCCAs

[Kyle Voltti]

You're right; the on time up date isn't something that would require a subjective critique, merely an objective one.
The schedule itself could be a subjectively critiqued though. What I mean is how different strips release. Girl Genius is an M-W-F schedule of full page work. Freak Angels is a weekly Friday release of multiple pages. GPF is an M-W-F strip. How do those decisions affect the presentation, the way the story is told?

also... I'll admit that i think people are willing to accept poorer art if the story is good then lousy writing if the art is great.... it's the only way I can explain for Rob Leifeld still getting work in the comics industry short of the largest collection of blackmail material on the planet.

[Arioch]

I agree absolutely that if you're talking about commandments for webcomics, one of the most important must be "thou shalt update regularly." I'd perhaps even argue that it's the first commandment. Whether it's monthly or weekly or three times a week or daily is not the most important thing -- obviously more is better -- but what's critical (I think) is the regularity. I was a reader of Elfquest back in the day, when a new issue came out every 120 days... and we dealt with it because at least we knew what to expect. Attention spans are shorter (well, mine is, anyway), but I still think that regularity is still the key.
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Jim Francis

[Ben Paddon]

What about annually?
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[Kyle Voltti]

[sketchmonster]

[Ben Paddon]

Indeed. if JjAR woke up this morning and decided he wanted nothing further to do with Jump Leads, and I was left to draw it myself using MSPaint, would you honestly think people would still read it?
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[ttallan]

For me, writing is far more important than the art, though much harder to judge on the web. I'll happily sit down with a graphic novel and plough through it in one sitting, but I can't usually take more than about 20 pages at a go in front of the computer. Waiting for each page to load is just too tedious.

(I breezed right through Outlander*, actually!)

But to be fair, I can't really give you an honest answer about writing vs art. Since I'm a writer, that's what I look for in a comic. (I'm the artist too, but I'm much more insecure about my art...)

I would say that the very best online comic experience I've ever had was reading Platinum Grit (which, uh, is fantasy and not sci fi. Hope that's OK). She uses Flash, and cuts up her comic into bite-sized chunks that make for perfect pacing. It all loads at once, so there's no waiting. She's got the art, she's got the writing... she fails on the update part, though. She chooses to update an entire issue at a go, but because she has a real job... well, I've been waiting for the next installment since October. But man, do I ever look forward to it!

*EDIT: By which I meant OUTSIDER of course. Ahahaha. geez...
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[Arioch]

One of the things I do on my website to speed the page transition process is that I load the image for the next page in the background while the user is reading the current page. So, unless the user flips rapidly between pages, there usually isn't any loading time for each page after the first.

I'm also suprised that more webcomics don't use the page itself as a clickable link to the next page. It's pain having to hunt around for the "next" button every single time.
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Jim Francis